Chris:         Hello?

Jon:           Chris, Jon Gilson.

Chris:         What’s up, Jon?

Jon:           How are you, dude?

Chris:         Good, man, how are you doing?

Jon:           Good, good.  I’ve got you on the recorder here.  Just wanted to talk to you a little bit about competition, about what’s going on at Headquarters, and what’s going on at Park City.

Chris:         Sure, man.

Jon:           Very cool.  First, tell me about the Northwest Regional, just went down two weeks ago. 

Chris:         Yeah…

Jon:           Your performance was absolutely dominant, first place in three of the four WODs.  Understandably, not first in an actual deadlift.  But other than that, you owned it.

Chris:         Thanks, Jon.  Yeah, it was just a good weekend.  I had been training hard for it.  Trying to – just preparing myself with keeping working on weaknesses and about six or eight weeks out, started doing some two-a-days, maybe two or three times a week just to kind of get mentally ready for that aspect of it, and adjusted some training schedules so that my workout days were going to be landing on Saturdays and Sundays.

                  Yeah, it went well.  It was a good weekend.  Glad to talk to you today and just happened to be some good workouts for me, and it went well.

Jon:           Which of the four was your favorite?

Chris:         I really liked the first and the last one.  I mean, it’s hard to say which one was – I really liked the first one with the overhead squats and the double unders just because I enjoy picking up heavier weight.  It’s just I like that when there’s some kind of skill element to it it’s not mindless where – it’s not that it’s a deadlift or a power clean mindless.

                  It’s just I don’t think you can take 135 pounds and just kind of lift it over your head and do whatever you want with it when you squat.  The double unders takes some skill.  So I really enjoyed that, the skill behind that.

                  Then I really enjoyed the variety behind the last workout.  It had a 20-foot rope climbing there.  Was super fun.  Just the rep scheme on the thrusters and the weights increasing.  Just both those two were a lot of fun.

Jon:           Yeah, I spoke Todd Widman about that, about that last workout and, of course, Todd’s also on the HQ staff and was in the Northwest Regional.  He said that that fourth WOD was one of the most trying WODs of his life.  Did you feel that that level of difficulty was there?

Chris:         It wasn’t.  I think just it wasn’t just because I think going into it, I think I was ready mentally and just approached it maybe in a different light.  Todd’s a big dude, climbing a rope 20 feet and being as big as he is and lift thrusters, you know.  It can take a toll.

                  I didn’t feel like it was…the most trying one that I’ve ever done but it was not easy, that’s for sure.

Jon:           Sure, sure.  Let’s go back to that first WOD for just a second because the world got to see that on video, which was cool.  I thought one of the neatest things and it blew my mind was that you actually I believe had a negative split.  I think you sped up in Round 3.  Does that vibe with your recollection?

Chris:         Yeah, the last round was one that I knew the double unders were more of a – tried to do a little bit more of a recovery on Round 1 and 2, and not tripping up on them.  The last round is trying to just go and that’s the only thing you have left, might as well give it all you got.  That’s where I think you can save a good amount of time as long as your overhead squats are strong.

Jon:           Yeah.  Let’s talk about what traditionally has been your quote, unquote “weakness”, Chris.  I say “weakness” because frankly your strength to bodyweight ratio always been through the roof, but you’ve managed to make it substantially better in the last year.

                  What I’m specifically referring to is look at the ’08 Games.  We had the 155 squat clean to overhead, 30 reps for time, which took you out of the running quickly.  And then we fast-forward…

Chris:         Yeah.

Jon:           …to 2010 watching you with 135 which is slightly less weight, but you were throwing around that overhead squat like that thing was PVC pipe.  No kidding.  What is it that you’ve done, already being a super high-level CrossFitter but to take it up another notch on the strength spectrum?

Chris:         Yeah, I think a lot of it is just viewing it as a way to patch up the weaknesses and for me, one thing that was huge, a couple of things.  One, adjusting my training so that I wasn’t overtrained.  I think I went to the ’09 Games super-overtrained.

                  Then also I did 5-3-2-1-1-1 back squat, consistently once a week for about six or seven months.  I think for me that is right where I need to be.  I’m never going to match anybody one-rep max, clean and jerk, or deadlift or anything like that.

                  So, the goal for me has kind of shifted from trying to pick up heavy one-rep maxes to be able to manage heavier loads at higher repetitions and do that more efficiently.

                  That 5-3-2-1-1-1 was a big help because your last set’s just an all-out max effort under a pretty heavy barbell.  The rep schemes can vary from anywhere from two reps to upwards of 15 or 18.  That was probably the biggest change for me.

Jon:           How do you think that helped, specifically, going up into those higher reps. Very rarely has CrossFit prescribed that.  We’ve seen a couple where it was like one-rep max followed by a 20-rep max followed by a one- and 30-rep max, or something like that.

                  But very rarely do those high rep schemes come up in at least the Main Page programming.  How do you think that 15 to 18 rep range works?  Just theoretically…

Chris:         Yes, honestly, I think there’s a lot that goes into that but for me that kind of rep range is just so, it’s so nasty; takes such a toll on your body, physically and mentally.  You have to be willing to go there.  But it’s also one of the things where if you approach it in a way that’s smart, it’s not an excessive amount of volume and I think it can allow you to get a big benefit from it, from having that load on your back or whatever you’re doing.  And still not be destroyed so you can accomplish next time, later on in the day, later on the week and not just be totally trashed.

                  I think there’s something to be said about working outside of set of a 5 or 8 with some substantial loading.

Jon:           Sure.  I’m kind of hearing an undertone to you talking about your training, about the avoidance of burning down, the avoidance of overtraining.  It sounds, and I know for a lot of CrossFitters it’s hard to get away from that mentality, of more is better.  I know there is a lot of people out here who are wondering what is it that you do, Chris?  We’ve got so many people that are going, “I need to do 8 two-a-days before I compete in Regionals,” and this sort of thing.

                  Talk to me a little bit about that.

Chris:         Yeah, I think last year I stayed following the three-on one-off and I did lots of heavy metcons to try and make it better.  I do every once in a while some two-a-days but for me that volume is too much.  So I adjusted my schedule so I went to three-on and one-off, two-on, one-off and that allowed me another rest day during the week so that my actual workouts were more productive.

                  Then, as I kind of got into that shift, I started lifting a little bit more and programming around things that have already been kind of taxed, making sure that I can go 100 percent in each workout. 

                  Also from there with the three-on one-off, two-on one-off I find that I’m much more capable of two-a-days.  Really, I’m getting one more workout in a week than I would with three-on one-off schedule, but I feel way better.  I feel more rested. 

                  There’s a lot of things that have to go with that, like your nutrition and things like that.  That schedule has been huge for me.  I usually do Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday as my on days, and Saturday and Sunday since that’s typically when competitions are.

                  For me, since I travel on the weekends, my two-a-days are usually on a Tuesday and a Thursday, or a Wednesday and a Thursday.  That’s been a big help.

Jon:           Very cool.  Let’s talk about that nutrition aspect of that.  You know, are you on the standard CrossFit Paleo-Zone prescription?  Are you measuring your food?  What are you doing, Chris?

Chris:         I definitely don’t Zone and someone else might actually eat it they’d probably say, “I definitely don’t Paleo.”  For me, I really just try to eat quality food.  Try to have each macronutrient at each meal.  I don’t weigh, I don’t measure.  But I try to eat a little bit more frequently.  I find that I feel better if I eat every three or four hours and going beyond that.

                  Then the big one for me has been just establishing some kind of post-workout shake and fish oil.  Those are the two things that I think have really changed my recovery is having that post-workout protein.  And then making sure I’m taking fish oil on a consistent basis.

Jon:           Sure.  I get asked a lot about the post-workout shake.  I’ve had good results with it personally as well.  What’s in it? What’s in your blender?

Chris:         I just take the Progenix Recovery, and that’s been a big help.  It’s mainly protein.  There’s very little carb in it so sometimes I’ll add some Gatorade to it or have some kind of carb afterwards.  That’s been, ah, even just having that has been a big help.  I think anyone just starting to dive into it finding something like that to take is going to make a big difference.

                  I know I personally don’t like to eat food after I workout.  I just feel like I’m going to barf if I eat it.  I like to have the shake instead because it’s much more tolerable and actually kind of start to crave it because I’m thirsty and a little zonked.  So that’s what I’ve been using.

Jon:           Let’s talk, Chris, about the mental aspect of competition.  In CrossFitting in general, do you go to the same place when you’re training versus competing?  Where do you go?  Do you have any kind of mental tricks, or what is it that you do to get your mind in the right place?

Chris:         I think I try to kind of go there, per se, pretty consistently. Anytime that I’m working out I try to put myself in the position where I go as hard as I possibly can go.  But I also know that competition provides an element that we don’t see elsewhere. 

                  I think most people push a little bit harder when they’re in that setting, and that’s not something you can create without that.  But, it is, I do think, for me on a consistent basis, I do have to put myself in the position that I don’t look forward to or like – just because you have to be comfortable being there for when you really go there in a competition.

Jon:           One of the hardest things mentally for athletes has got to be the year-over-year toll of CrossFit competition and specifically, bouncing back.  I’ve spent a lot of time in the last couple of weeks thinking about these folks who are fourth place finishers at their Regionals, folks who are non-qualifiers in their Sectionals, and combining that idea with the fact that CrossFitters seem to be getting stronger and better.  The competition gets fiercer each and every year.

                  I know that you personally had an experience in ’08 where there was a high expectation for you to either come out on top and again that 155 pounds kind of got you.  How do you come back from something like that?  How do you keep your mental state right, to keep competing hard?

Chris:         Yeah, I think a lot of it is just – you know, there was a time there where I really feel like I let the CrossFit community down as a whole, with not winning the ’08 Games, and especially last year.  I felt that there was more pressure on me.

                  I’ve kind of come to the point where personally, my goal is to be as fit as I can.  My goal is to put myself into the position when I do go to competitions I’ll be able to do the workouts that when I walk away I know there’s nothing more that I could have done.

                  The reality is there’s nothing I can do about the guy or gal next to me that’s doing a workout.  I’m not worrying about them.  There’s nothing for my performance.  It’s just a place where I kind of come to and I start to realize that performance is important to me.  I take my training seriously.  But there is more to life than CrossFit, and I think you need to have this perspective. 

When you walk out into a competition setting, you need to believe in yourself.  You need to believe in your training.  You just need to throw down and understand that when you walk away, if you had, that’s the way it turned out then just by the nature of CrossFit, programming has so much to do with your outcome in a competition.

Even four workouts over the course of two days is a really small window to be testing fitness.  I think people out there remind themselves of that.  Part of it is in the programming and I do think the best of the best will always kind of rise to the top.  But the guys and the gals that are in the top 10 or maybe even 15 are really fit individuals.  The person that won is kind of – their training worked out that day and things worked out well.

The top 10 or 15 in every competition are going to be capable of winning.  I think a lot of it just depends on the programming, how they trained, their nutrition, sleep; just so many things go into that so you can’t put pressure on yourself.  I think that’s a big part of it is kind of just piecing those things together.

Jon:           Sure.  Chris, I hear you saying that you don’t put pressure on yourself.  I’ve seen you personally exhibit behavior that would indicate otherwise, that there is a lot of pressure on you to perform well, to fulfill the expectations that a CrossFit community…even if it’s something that’s hard for you as the incredibly humble person I know you are to accept, you’re more or less a legend in CrossFit.

                  How do you deal with that?  How do you deal being at the Level 1s and people going, “Oh, my God, that’s Chris Spealler,” every lunchtime workout having to be absolutely amazing and so on and so forth.  Does that pressure build on you?

Chris:         It did, for a while.  It did start to kind of take its toll, and it did start to put me in a position where I really felt that pressure and I put it on myself a lot.  But kind of where I’ve come to now is I want people know me for who I am, the man that I’m trying to be and I also want – I think part of what helps communicate that is not necessarily a time or a place but an effort.

                  I know that there will never be a time where I would do a workout and not have it be 100 percent.  That’s just kind of - you know I’ve been blessed with that kind of wiring.  That for me is doing me a lot of comfort.  So it’s not so much a concern.  I compete to win. 

That place – I want that first place but I think there is more value to people that just lay their heart out there every workout than putting a place on that.  You see in the LA games with Kalista (Pappas), doing her clean and jerks and not quitting. More people would impacted by that than I think anything else over the weekend.  I think that is where I try to shift my focus.

Jon:           Sure.  Again, our friend Todd, he often says, “This isn’t a workout.  This isn’t about the workout.”  What do you think of that statement?

Chris:         Yeah, I mean, I think there’s definitely something there to that.  You know, there’s more – I think that’s what makes the CrossFit Community different is that it’s not just a workout.  It’s that effort.  It’s the way that people pursue it and the way that people will support one another through it.  I think this makes this a very, very different community than from other people out there.

Jon:           Let’s talk about the community a little bit.  How are things going for you at CrossFit Park City?

Chris:         Good.  We just had some steady, kind of slow growth.  We’ve never had a place that’s just been booming.  We don’t have a huge influx of people coming in. We’ve got a unique demographic in a different town.  But things have been going well, this slow, very slow, steady growth.  A little bit of an expansion this past fall which is nice and we’ll be here for kind of as long as we need to be. 

                  Eric O’Connor works with us full-time now, which is a huge help for me.  We’ve got another trainer, Doug, and trying to kind of grow some more people into that.  It’s been good.  It’s a great place to come home to, that’s for sure.

Jon:           Great.  Do your clients have any clue that you’re quote, unquote “Chris Spealler”?  Does your achievement in the CrossFit competitive world impact them?

Chris:         I think it’s starting to kind of spread throughout the community.  You know, it’s there as more people that have been around for longer.  They spend more time on dot com.  They hear about Eric and I doing well in Regionals.  They watch videos and they kind of start to learn more about it.          

                  I’d say it’s kind of that still 50/50 where people know about it and other people have no idea.  They stumble upon the video and they’re like, “Oh, my gosh.  I had no idea.”  That’s fine.  It’s not the way that Eric and I view it at the gym, as it’s not about us.  It’s about them and their efforts and us helping them get better.  We’re just a part of that.

Jon:           Very cool.  Chris, you’re a new father.  How has this changed your life?

Chris:         It’s been awesome. Sarah, my wife, has been a rock star.  She’s been really supportive as far as just letting me kind of continue on my path of training and trying to stay on top of things and like that.  She’s been really good about trying to let me get my sleep and things like that.

                  That kind of – the things that I think people negatively associate with having kids really hasn’t been an issue mainly because Sarah has been so awesome. But it’s always been huge to just give me great perspective.  When I go to Regionals and having Sarah and my son, it’s just cool to deal with the finish of the workout and go see them.  That’s so much more of what matters in life.  That’s just another part of life that’s so much more important.

                  So, it’s been good to help me kind of keep things in perspective.  Also makes me look forward to kind of seeing what our little guy does in the future, whether he loves CrossFit or whether he loves the specific sport or whatever it is, it’s going to be fun to kind of go through that with him.

Jon:           Right.  Well, we’ve talked a lot about kids in CrossFit among the HQ staff.  Obviously Keegan and Connor Martin starting at age 12 and 13, and obviously becoming the monsters that they are today at 15 and 18.

                  What do you think – and pure conjecture, we’re going to see from folks like perhaps your kid, starting super early.  Starting at ages 4, or 5, 6, 10, 11 with this, do you have any thoughts?

Chris:         Part of me thinks that not much is going to change because I think that if you put a kid that young into any kind of sporting environment…I know like for me I grew up wrestling.  I started wrestling when I was 6 years old.  A kid is in an environment like that where they can just learn body awareness and just kind of get coordination down and have fun doing it.  I think that’s so much of the aim of CrossFit Kids, that I think it’s kind of sixes.  When you start talking about kids starting that young, I think if they’re involved in gymnastics or whatever, soccer or anything like that.

                  I think that’s a huge benefit either way.  I think the difference is going to come when a kid that’s maybe 14 or 15 really decides like, “Hey, CrossFit’s my sport.  CrossFit is what I want to do.”  We see that kind of shift, I think that’s where you maybe see some people that have some pretty incredible capacity in the years to come.

Jon:           Chris, you’re, in addition to being Affiliate owner and father and high-level competitive CrossFit athlete, you’re one of our Flowmasters in Level 1s, and also very active in the new Coaches Prep Course.  Why do you do all this?  It’s a non-stop…

Chris:         What’s that?

Jon:           I was just saying it’s non-stop.

Chris:         Yeah, it’s that I think really a huge reason why I do it is just because I love it, you know?  It’s something that for the situation that Sarah and I are in, it’s - hard extra work.  Anyway, it’s great and if I’m going to have to work extra, I might as well do something that I love doing.  Being able to kind of educate people on this stuff and it’s just so fun.

`                 I really, really enjoy lecturing.  I also find myself really enjoying my trainer development, really helping some of our newer trainers process through to do some of the things that they’re doing their Level 1 and help them become better as trainers and stuff like that, the Coaches Prep Course. 

                  It’s just so cool to see people grow and just kind of the light bulb goes off at Level 1, I think like all of us have experienced it.  You know a little bit about it.   It’s so cool to see that happen for people.

                  Those are the main reasons why really just because – it can be really rewarding for work and you get to travel and things like that can – you just get used to it.  You start to see it after having some really cool experiences with Level 1s and 2s and Prep Courses and things like that.

Jon:           With the Level 2s, with the Prep Courses, what are you seeing there?  What would you put out there for the people reading this who do want to coach?  What would you put out there as advice?  How do you get into that?

Chris:         Yeah, I think that just doing it.  You just have to start.  You have to start to watch people move.  Guys like you and I and Pat and people that travel on a consistent basis and for me, I have an Affiliate at home.  I work on the weekends doing CrossFit. We have the privilege of being able to watch people move seven days a week for hours on end.  That can be super valuable in just coaching and getting a good eye and learning how to see correct movements.

                  Interestingly I encourage people just to start doing it.  It doesn’t have to look like rocket science.  It just can be you watching your buddy squat and starting to assess it and evaluate it and then tinkering with it and knowing that if you see someone do something one way and it doesn’t work, there’s nothing wrong with that.

                  We find that frequently, even with the best trainers out there.  I think the growth comes when you start to learn how to make that happen.  So, just getting your eyes on people and the Coaches’ Prep Course is huge for people to start to understand where to look and how to see different moves and form and how to correct those.

                  That’s the biggest piece of advice is don’t get scared to jump in.  The only way you’re going to get better at it is just to do it whether it’s your neighbor, your dad, your mom, your sister.  Doesn’t matter, just start coaching.

Jon:           Sure.  Chris, what goes down in the Coaches Prep Course?

Chris:         There’s quite a bit of lecture on a variety of topics, some of the things that I think people get the most out of.  It’s got a really cool section on programming, how to analyze programming, looking at holes in programming, where to - the importance of variance through that.

                  And then there’s also some lectures on heavy days, how to implement those, getting some new CrossFitters involved.  The best ways to do that and probably some of the other most valuable stuff is there’s quite a few group breakout sessions where we allow people to coach each other one-on-one, and then in small groups, so that the head trainers there can give them feedback.  And really just learn as an entire group different views, different fixes, tactile and verbal fixes for performing and things like that.

                  Another thing that they’re doing which is really neat is one of the head trainers will lead a workout.  Basically he runs a class just like they would at their Affiliate or anywhere else.  So if you get a chance to see how a class should be run from start to finish from a high-quality trainer, how to scale things, how to adjust things for injuries.

                  Those are some of the big things that we’re seeing.  I think people take a ton away from each one of those things.

Jon:           Very, very cool.  Just switching gears, brother, I see, and I was just talking with Jeff Tincher today about this, that Regional and Sectional programming for the Games, leading up to the Games tends to follow the patterns that were established in the National Games, kind of the year before.

                  For instance, the prevalence for chest-to-bar pullups as a standard, the incidence of long-distance trail running, the incidence of long-distance running, period.  That said, do you think that our athletes are prepped for what Dave and Tony are going to come out with in L.A. this year?

Chris:         I think so.  I think that’s really dependent upon what – how people train, you know?  I think the best way to prepare for the Games is just to continually to try to punish your weakness.  I know it’s different for everyone.  As people watch me workout they’d say that I do CrossFit with a strength bias.  That’s not true.  I just do CrossFit and I work on my weaknesses.  That’s just the way it is.

                  Guys that need to work on their 400-meter intervals, it looks like they do CrossFit with an endurance or a running bias.  I think that’s the key is just making sure that you are constantly doing that.  If people had done that, I don’t think they have anything to worry about.

                  If people haven’t done that, I do think they have something to worry about, because you never know what’s going to be there.  If you can walk into an event, confident that you can do anything that’s thrown at you, then it just comes down to – I think you will be a little bit more inclined to have a strength there so that’s the best you can do.

Jon:           Sure.  We hear – we say this a lot at the Level 1s.  Something is going to come out of that hopper that you don’t want to do.  There’s something in there that scares you.  Program for me, let’s say a task-oriented workout, a task-priority workout that we could call “Speal” that would just be weakness after weakness.  What would come out of that hopper that would just make you throw your hands in the sky?

Chris:         Sure.  I would say any kind of heavy – it’s still, still it’s challenging but you’ve gotten way better, but anything heavy kind of squat clean into an overhead press.  Anything, I’m okay with heavy squat cleans,  I’m okay with heavy clean jerks, but when you have to do a heavy-squat clean and jerk, life is real hard real quick for me.

                  So, something whether it’s a heavy squat clean at 155 or higher, anything…I would say that mixed with kind of high-rep deadlifts that are outside of 315.

Jon:           That would wind up being heavier than 315?

Chris;         Yeah, you know?  I feel like I’m confident managing 315 in sets of 10, maybe a little higher but anything outside of that it’s a little nasty.  So those are the two things that I think really – they don’t scare me and I in some ways enjoy doing them.

                  But those are the two things that I would kind of be like, “Oh, crap, here we go again.”  I’ve gotten much better but it’s just like anybody else.  It’s just one of those things that I’ve got to keep working on.

Jon:           I remember, God, it must have been about 18 months ago, watching a 315 pound deadlift, I think there were 25 reps in the entire workout get the best of you.  So hearing you say that 315 for 10 is now in the realm definitely speaks to you smacking the hell out of that weakness. 

                  Where’s your dead at now, Brother?

Chris:         I pulled 400 about maybe eight weeks ago, which was huge for me.  So I’m pulling 400 on a good day and then I feel better with some moderate loading at higher reps.  Moderate loading for me is different for other people.

Jon:           Four hundred is no joke, man.  Definitely no joke.  You put on a little bit of size in the last year, too, haven’t you?

Chris:         Yeah. It’s kind of funny.  I honestly probably have only gained like 2 pounds.

Jon:           Okay.

Chris:         I’ve gotten a little bit thicker.  I think it just looks bigger because I’m on such a teeny frame.  I’m weighing anywhere from 139 to 142; just depends on how fat I am that day.

Jon:           One last thing, brother.  I hear that there’s a pool in LA.  Do you think anybody’s going to be in that thing?

Chris:         I don’t.  I don’t.  I mean, it’s possible.  You never know but I don’t just because I feel like depending on what the workout would be, it would be almost a specialist kind of game at that point.  Not that you shouldn’t be able to swim or anything like that, but I don’t know.  I think it would – if there was a swim it would have to be a really short distance for it to be an effective workout where most of us are.  I would probably drown because I don’t swim well.

Jon:           Most of us without body fat don’t swim well, frankly. 

Chris:         Yeah…

Jon:           Well, I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me, brother.  I hope that you kick some serious butt in LA and I’ll be looking forward to seeing you on the road.

Chris:         Awesome.  Well, thank you, Jon.  Good talking to you, man.

Jon:           All right, Brother.  Later.

Chris:         You bet.